Campfire Lessons for Leaders with Guest Tony Martignetti | HR 71

Susan Ney: 00:00:02

I welcome to the podcast HR inside out. I'm your

Susan Ney: 00:00:06

host, Susan A. And it's my absolute pleasure to be

Susan Ney: 00:00:08

welcoming author, Tony March. Nettie to be here with us today.

Tony Martignetti: 00:00:14

Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be

Tony Martignetti: 00:00:16

here, Susan.

Susan Ney: 00:00:18

Me too, that you're here. Hey, a little bit about

Susan Ney: 00:00:21

you first, if that's okay, yeah. So Tony is the chief inspiration

Susan Ney: 00:00:26

officer at inspired purpose partners. He's a trusted

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advisor, leadership coach and facilitator, a best selling

Susan Ney: 00:00:34

author, podcast host, and speaker. He brings together over

Susan Ney: 00:00:39

25 years of business and leadership experience at extreme

Susan Ney: 00:00:43

curiosity to elevate leaders and to equip them with the tools to

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navigate through change and to unlock their true potential.

Susan Ney: 00:00:51

He's been recognized as one of the top voices in leadership and

Susan Ney: 00:00:55

by leaders hum as one of the biggest voices in leadership.

Susan Ney: 00:01:00

Wow. Tony has been a finance and strategy executive who had

Susan Ney: 00:01:04

experience working with some of the leading life sciences

Susan Ney: 00:01:07

companies. along his journey. He's also managed small

Susan Ney: 00:01:10

businesses, and he's run a financial consulting company.

Susan Ney: 00:01:15

Tony hosts the virtual account for our podcast and he's the

Susan Ney: 00:01:19

author of both climbing the right mountain, navigating the

Susan Ney: 00:01:23

journey to an inspired life. And the book we're going to be

Susan Ney: 00:01:26

delving into today. Campfire lessons for leaders, how

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uncovering our past can propel us forward. He has been featured

Susan Ney: 00:01:34

on in many publications, including Fast Company, Forbes,

Susan Ney: 00:01:39

life science leader, and CEO today. He earned his MBA degree

Susan Ney: 00:01:44

from Northeastern University and is a certified professional

Susan Ney: 00:01:47

coach with training from various coaching institutions and

Susan Ney: 00:01:50

programs. He lives in Boston, Massachusetts with his wife and

Susan Ney: 00:01:54

son. He is an adventurer seeker fascinated by nature, art and

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architecture, all of which includes in his itinerary

Susan Ney: 00:02:04

wherever he travels, how exciting. Again, welcome. Thank

Susan Ney: 00:02:10

you

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:10

so much. I feel so welcome already. So my

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:13

conversation, and

Susan Ney: 00:02:15

I'm ready to nestle down and listen to the crack and

Susan Ney: 00:02:17

pop all of that cap fire. I just I love how you use that. So I'm

Susan Ney: 00:02:24

excited to delve into your excellent book count for our

Susan Ney: 00:02:26

lessons for leaders how uncovering our past can propel

Susan Ney: 00:02:31

us forward. And I have to say that I love that you work as a

Susan Ney: 00:02:36

chief inspiration officer at inspired purpose partner. So

Susan Ney: 00:02:41

let's start with that title of yours. It obviously reflects all

Susan Ney: 00:02:44

of who you are, and and a little bit about the work that you do.

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:48

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up.

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:50

Because it's one of those titles that people think like, oh, that

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:53

sounds nice. But you know, what's the real meaning behind

Tony Martignetti: 00:02:56

it? How do you kind of like give yourself that title, I often say

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:00

that I have to, I have to earn it every day, I have to earn

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:02

that title every day by not only keeping myself inspired, but

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:06

other people around me by showing up and being real and

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:11

being connected to what lights me up. Because I think

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:14

inspiration is about igniting in us something that keeps us you

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:19

know, thriving and thinking about what's important in our

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:24

lives and what keeps us motivated. So I find when you

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:29

are most inspired, you're willing to go that extra mile

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:33

and willing to do those things that that others maybe don't

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:38

have the energy or the enthusiasm to do. And so, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:41

know, being the chief inspiration officer, it's about

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:44

getting other people to unlock that potential, because I'm

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:48

inspiring them to create that next opportunity to see beyond

Tony Martignetti: 00:03:52

the horizons of what they think as possible.

Susan Ney: 00:03:55

I love it. And I know when you're with somebody who

Susan Ney: 00:03:58

exudes that kind of energy, it really is it affects everybody

Susan Ney: 00:04:03

in a nice in a good way.

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:05

Yes. It was a big caveat around an infection

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:07

nowadays.

Susan Ney: 00:04:09

Oh, my goodness, yes. I'm going to jump right into the

Susan Ney: 00:04:15

areas of the book that caught my attention. And first, please

Susan Ney: 00:04:19

tell us more about what you call flash points, the flash points

Susan Ney: 00:04:23

that happen in our lives and why they are so critically important

Susan Ney: 00:04:27

for us to be paying attention to let's start there.

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:30

Yeah, I mean, this whole concept of flash

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:33

points. People often think, oh, an inflection point, a pivot

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:36

point, things like that. Sure. It's similar. But the thing with

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:40

flash points is there's this connection to well connection to

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:44

fire. But there's also a sense of it, it changes you and if you

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:51

have this light that goes on and all of a sudden you're there's

Tony Martignetti: 00:04:55

an ignition of you going into a new path or or go going into a

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:00

new part of your life, and you can no longer go back to the way

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:04

things were, you are have now changed irreversibly into

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:09

something else because of some events that have transpired. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:14

oftentimes, these flash points, they they don't necessarily you

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:17

don't know them until they've happened. They don't you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:21

you don't know them in the moment that are Flashpoint.

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:23

Sometimes you only realize it in hindsight, for example, you been

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:30

laid off by a, by a job that you've been attaching all your

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:34

identity to, and all of a sudden, you realize, like, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:37

don't want to go back to doing the same work any longer. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:41

I've realized, this is my moment, a flashpoint moment for

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:44

me to take control of my life, and do things that I want, and

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:50

light me up. And I'm just using that as an example. But yeah,

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:54

flashpoints I've seen in other people's lives or, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:56

being on the verge of, you know, being the darkest moments of

Tony Martignetti: 00:05:59

your life or navigating an illness or, you know, losing a

Tony Martignetti: 00:06:05

loved one. Any number of those things can be seen as a massive

Tony Martignetti: 00:06:09

Flashpoint. And so you don't know what it's going to create

Tony Martignetti: 00:06:13

new until it reads it.

Susan Ney: 00:06:16

Yeah. Oh, and we're going to get into some of the

Susan Ney: 00:06:19

people some other people's stories from your book. So we're

Susan Ney: 00:06:22

going to build on that. So thank you. Now, the book is also that

Susan Ney: 00:06:26

it is about tales of transformation and the tiny

Susan Ney: 00:06:30

steps that led to the big leaps, and the sharing of stories that

Susan Ney: 00:06:35

inspire others. It's, it's just such an exciting book. Can you

Susan Ney: 00:06:41

tell us a little bit about I mean, you have talked to many,

Susan Ney: 00:06:45

many people, but you have chosen specific stories, and specific

Susan Ney: 00:06:50

those from specific individuals. How do you How did you make

Susan Ney: 00:06:54

those choices? Of what to include in your wonderful book?

Tony Martignetti: 00:06:59

Thank you. Well, first of all, it was not

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:01

easy. Because there's so many amazing people who have been on

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:05

the show and great stories have been shared. And and now I'm,

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:08

I'm clocking in at about 250, episodes, 250. So far, and I

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:14

still feel like the energy is there for me to continue, which

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:18

I think is a really cool thing. But the choices that I had to

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:22

make were really had to do with, with which ones do I feel, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:29

know, really tell the story of that particular lesson I was

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:32

trying to share. And so I was connecting with the lessons,

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:36

which I have 10 lessons in there, and trying to find the

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:39

story that really connects with that. And so the choices were

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:43

hard, but I had to come up with the ones that know which

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:47

resonated the most. But it was so hard and choosing those

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:52

stories was was only the beginning. I then had to make

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:56

sure that I you know, painstakingly, if you will, the

Tony Martignetti: 00:07:59

writing process can be painstaking. Make sure that i i

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:03

tell their story in the most delicate and the most honest

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:07

way. Because I care deeply about them. I care deeply about the

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:11

people who have trusted me with their stories, but also that it

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:17

doesn't sugarcoat and it doesn't necessarily put my spin or bias

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:23

on your story.

Susan Ney: 00:08:25

My you chose you chose well. Now through kind of

Susan Ney: 00:08:31

a goes right through your book where you you talk about

Susan Ney: 00:08:37

returning to a foundation of what you call your through seat,

Susan Ney: 00:08:40

three C's. These being curiosity, compassion and

Susan Ney: 00:08:45

connection. That's what you call part of being grounded

Susan Ney: 00:08:48

leadership. And I saw that line, right throughout your work. Why

Susan Ney: 00:08:53

these particular three?

Tony Martignetti: 00:08:56

Yeah, well, first of all, there's a there my

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:01

values are there three of my most important values, which is,

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:04

which is really not why I chose it, per se. But it is

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:08

interesting that that how it all came to be. But the interesting

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:12

thing about those three C's is that when you think about how

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:16

people build relationships, and how people can show up most

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:21

powerfully, it's through being compassionate with themselves

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:25

and with others, connecting with themselves and with others. So

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:30

it's always an internal, external, and through curiosity,

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:35

asking of themselves the questions that they most need to

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:37

ask, getting curious about the things that they're

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:40

experiencing, and then also being curious about others,

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:43

their experiences, what's going on for them. So those three C's

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:48

in when they work together. They're like a strong force, and

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:51

they all reinforce each other. When you're curious and you have

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:54

compassion. Then what happens is you're going to you're going to

Tony Martignetti: 00:09:57

ask questions, with the with the design err, to want to know more

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:01

about how are they feeling about a situation? How are you feeling

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:05

about your time at this moment where you're navigating a dark

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:10

moment, per se, or we're navigating a challenging period

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:14

of your life. And through that you're connecting. They just

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:20

they, the three of them just worked so well together in terms

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:22

of reinforcing each other. And through it all, they allow us to

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:26

become more connected as people.

Susan Ney: 00:10:31

Well, that's a huge part of empathy. Yeah, yeah.

Susan Ney: 00:10:34

Then Yeah. And it's so in alignment with being a chief

Susan Ney: 00:10:40

inspiration officer.

Tony Martignetti: 00:10:43

Exactly. Exactly.

Susan Ney: 00:10:45

You also talk about the challenge of people becoming

Susan Ney: 00:10:48

trapped in fixed mindsets characterized by thoughts such

Susan Ney: 00:10:51

as it is what it is, and I've certainly heard that on my own

Susan Ney: 00:10:54

mouth. And you delve into why it's so important for us to

Susan Ney: 00:10:59

examine how our beliefs and how our thoughts are shaping those

Susan Ney: 00:11:03

experiences our own experiences? Can you tell us a little bit

Susan Ney: 00:11:07

more about or just dive a little deeper?

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:09

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we get stuck

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:12

in those traps, because of the fact that it's, you know, we

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:16

feel like there's we have no agency or no control over how

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:20

things are. And the reality is, we have more control than we

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:24

think. And when we start to, to reframe that, and turn, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:30

know, potential obstacles or potential, you know, the things

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:32

that are in front of us into an opportunity for us to be able

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:36

to, to change things or to create what we don't have. I

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:41

talk about it as we create our own worlds through the actions

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:46

and the things that we do. And in the context of some of the

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:49

people in my in the book, you know, there's no meaning they

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:52

don't have experience or see the things in their environment,

Tony Martignetti: 00:11:55

they create the environment that they want to see most.

Susan Ney: 00:12:00

Yeah, thank you. And I'm going to actually turn to

Susan Ney: 00:12:02

some of those stories. Yeah, starting with an Brennan story

Susan Ney: 00:12:06

called the title, the power of sharing your story. Now, I

Susan Ney: 00:12:10

underlined her word central quote, Every day, we all affect

Susan Ney: 00:12:14

somebody's life, whether we know it or not. Now, as many of our

Susan Ney: 00:12:19

listeners have people oversight responsibilities as supervisors,

Susan Ney: 00:12:24

managers, senior executive, I think this is really important

Susan Ney: 00:12:29

to remember. Yeah, no. And share that one of her blog posts

Susan Ney: 00:12:34

actually saved one of her readers lives. Yeah. We. And

Susan Ney: 00:12:39

that sharing is absolutely about being vulnerable. And it isn't

Susan Ney: 00:12:44

easy. It isn't easy. Those those potential ripples there, they're

Susan Ney: 00:12:50

critical to consider. Can you share perhaps another quick

Susan Ney: 00:12:55

story from your book of of how those positive ripples of have

Susan Ney: 00:13:01

helped someone? Or? Yeah, credit, a good credit a good

Susan Ney: 00:13:07

tsunami?

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:08

Absolutely. I think there's something about

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:10

what you just you know, first of all, an story is remarkable. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:14

I think one of the things about it is that it takes a lot of

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:16

courage, a moment of courage to put that out into the world.

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:23

When you have something that potentially other people might

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:26

say, like, wow, that's a lot left for me to take in. But it

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:29

gives other people the opportunity to say, Oh, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:32

completely get it. And I know that feeling. I've been feeling

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:35

that way too. And because you share that it's has feeling not

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:40

alone. Another person that comes to mind is Nancy Barrows, who

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:45

she she suffered a lot of trauma as a child. She was molested by

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:50

her grandfather. And she suffered a lot of trauma. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:54

she decided at some point after doing a lot of healing on her

Tony Martignetti: 00:13:58

own, to share her story bravely. And she created a safe space for

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:06

other people to share their stories and to say that, hey,

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:10

you know, you're not broken. You know, you are just someone who's

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:15

had some trauma that you're dealing with and created a safe

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:18

we'll call a brave space. It's how she calls it, a brave space

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:21

to show up. And a lot of people who have come in gravitated to

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:25

her because of the fact that she's shown the messy side of

Tony Martignetti: 00:14:29

her, and she's said it's okay to be messy.

Susan Ney: 00:14:34

I just read Glennon Doyle's untamed again, another

Susan Ney: 00:14:39

great example of sharing boldly and courageously and helping

Susan Ney: 00:14:44

lots of people in the process of doing that. Thank you. Going

Susan Ney: 00:14:49

back to one of your three C's that one of connection, you note

Susan Ney: 00:14:52

that we're wired as humans for deeper connection, and it does

Susan Ney: 00:14:57

indeed bond us and it doesn't exist. virus inspires us to take

Susan Ney: 00:15:01

action. And it does create a sense of belonging instead of

Susan Ney: 00:15:06

feeling alone and isolated. As a human resource professional with

Susan Ney: 00:15:12

the pandemic and the continued impact of the pandemic, working

Susan Ney: 00:15:17

remotely, is still a bit of a concern for me, and particularly

Susan Ney: 00:15:21

that sea of connection. What are your thoughts? I know that

Susan Ney: 00:15:25

there's many people working in a hybrid, which at least is

Susan Ney: 00:15:28

enabling some of that person to person.

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:32

Yeah, I love you bring this up. Because this

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:34

is a this is still on the minds of so many people still. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:37

yeah, sure, if we can get in person at least on occasion,

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:41

that's always a plus. Because getting in person allows us to

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:46

have the physicality and the the ability to have, you know, the

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:52

the chance to, to get to see and interact with people on a face

Tony Martignetti: 00:15:56

to face basis, which is very different. You know, for those

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:00

who know what it's like. But in a remote setting, it doesn't

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:06

mean you can't build connection, you can't have connection, but

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:09

you got to make sure that you're doing it intentionally. And I

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:12

know that word can be overused, intentional, but here's the

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:15

here's what it looks like to create intentional connection

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:19

remotely, you have to make sure that it's not just something

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:22

bolted on to the side of something else. If you're trying

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:27

to say like, Hey, at the beginning of meetings, we're

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:28

going to do a check in and such and such and such, and that's

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:31

all great, and it's nothing wrong with that. But that

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:34

doesn't substitute for the intentional connection you need

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:38

to create, by having a separate meeting that allows people to

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:43

get to know each other on a deeper level, a way to dig a

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:48

little deeper behind the the surface of what's going on. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:52

doing that from an intentional way. It's about you know, these

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:55

ideas of getting to know what is the story that makes up who you

Tony Martignetti: 00:16:59

are? And what are the things that make you unique. And I

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:02

often jokingly say, the things that make us weird, are what

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:06

makes us wonderful. And when we get to explore that, even in a

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:10

work setting what people think is like, oh, it's work? Well,

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:13

you know, we don't do that at work. But why not? Why not?

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:18

Because in work, when we get to know other people's weird stuff,

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:23

then we get to know like, we can celebrate that we can actually

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:27

come to appreciate that. You know, I had a did a TED talk

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:31

called don't check yourself with the door, you know how to bring

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:34

your true self to work. And in it, that's what I you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:37

uncovered this idea that there's a lot of people who, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:41

they think of their hobbies as something that like, Oh, nobody

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:44

cares about that. But when I encouraged some of the leaders I

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:48

worked with to share, you know, the little things, it opened the

Tony Martignetti: 00:17:53

door for amazing connection. And it was worthwhile.

Susan Ney: 00:17:57

Oh, it makes such a difference. Yeah, just knowing

Susan Ney: 00:18:01

how important someone's pet is to them, or knowing the names of

Susan Ney: 00:18:05

their kids and what their kids are up to. Yes, that's certainly

Susan Ney: 00:18:08

my experience as well. So thank you. I'm going to take us

Susan Ney: 00:18:14

through Nancy Barrows story. Now it was titled here is titled

Susan Ney: 00:18:19

unleashing the brave space within. And that you, you wrote

Susan Ney: 00:18:23

that Nancy as a keynote speaker that I'm going to quote, again,

Susan Ney: 00:18:26

aims to inspire and help others discover their true selves by

Susan Ney: 00:18:29

taking off the social masks they wear, and showing up

Susan Ney: 00:18:33

authentically and certainly the little bit that you've shared of

Susan Ney: 00:18:36

Nancy's story, she has done that. Can you explain a little

Susan Ney: 00:18:40

bit about what what are these social masks? And how why it's

Susan Ney: 00:18:44

so important for leaders to indeed show up authentically?

Tony Martignetti: 00:18:49

Yeah, I mean, it aligns with what I was just

Tony Martignetti: 00:18:52

sharing a moment ago, as a sense of like, we feel like we have to

Tony Martignetti: 00:18:56

be the person who has it all together, we have to be

Tony Martignetti: 00:18:59

polished. And we have to, you know, have it all. We have to

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:03

have it all done, especially on social media. You know, when you

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:08

think about the people who show up and say, like, look, I've

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:10

got, you know, the perfect marriage, I've got the perfect

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:14

this perfect disc. And the reality is, nobody is really

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:17

believing that nobody's truly believing all that. And so these

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:21

masks we put on, they're not going to allow other people to

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:25

see us. So the best way for people to see us and to connect

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:29

with us is to let all that down. And you can do it at your own

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:33

pace and in your own way, and just say, Hey, this is who I am.

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:37

And this is what I what I want from you is for you to be who

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:41

you are. And when we get truly connected on that level. Then

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:44

what happens is we can get real, we can really get to know each

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:48

other. I think of the leaders who have shown up in the room

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:51

and I've seen this before with my clients but also in my

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:54

experience in the corporate world who have tried to be

Tony Martignetti: 00:19:58

something that they're not And they they put a lot of pressure

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:02

on themselves. And then all sudden they find themselves in

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:05

this fatigue state and they let the mask down. And people say,

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:10

Well, wait a minute, why are you acting so differently? Because

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:14

they're showing up now for, you know, differently than they ever

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:17

have. Because they were constantly putting on that mask

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:21

of the strong leader or the person who has all the answers.

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:25

And the reality is, we don't need that what we want is

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:28

someone who's going to be real with us.

Susan Ney: 00:20:32

I'm sure that wearing those masks also contributes to

Susan Ney: 00:20:35

some of the burnout that we're seeing. Yeah, no, because you're

Susan Ney: 00:20:38

being a false person. And a large portion of your, your,

Susan Ney: 00:20:43

your days. Yeah,

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:45

it's, it's exhausting, not and sometimes it

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:49

becomes so ingrained in our patterns that we forget we're

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:53

even doing it will feel like, Oh, this is just who I am. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:20:57

then you you go through that moment, and I'll explain to you

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:00

just a little bit of what happened to me, is this ego for

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:03

that moment, are always saying like, this isn't, this isn't me,

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:06

this isn't who I am. Why do I feel so disconnected? to who I

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:11

am? Oh, it's because I've been spending so much time being

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:15

someone I'm not. For example, for me being in the world of

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:20

trying to be a finance professional, like, you know, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:23

chose that path. Because everyone goes, I felt like I was

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:27

kind of forced into it, where you should be, you should be the

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:29

finance person. And that's great. But at the end of the

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:32

day, I knew my heart was not 100% into it. And I knew that I

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:38

had some longing for something else. I had a missing piece

Tony Martignetti: 00:21:42

inside of me that was waiting to come out. So I

Susan Ney: 00:21:45

laugh as I listened to you. I'm semi retired. And I

Susan Ney: 00:21:50

remember coming home and being told, you can take the director

Susan Ney: 00:21:53

and a mask off now please. Not at home. So Oh, yeah. And so

Susan Ney: 00:22:02

some of its yeah, as you say, the socialization and

Susan Ney: 00:22:04

expectations and what we think the world is expecting of us. So

Susan Ney: 00:22:09

really important to be paying attention to that. Yeah. Then

Susan Ney: 00:22:12

going back to Nancy's story, she I'd also underlined in your

Susan Ney: 00:22:15

book, that she said, at some point, you have to take your

Susan Ney: 00:22:19

Face your past, and use it to move forward that if you

Susan Ney: 00:22:23

continue to avoid it, it will control you and hold you back

Susan Ney: 00:22:26

from living fully. Can Can you share with us an example perhaps

Susan Ney: 00:22:32

of where you've seen this happen in your work?

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:35

Yes, yeah, I mean, so many places where I've

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:39

seen leaders, including myself, who have held on to this idea

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:45

that like this is I'm only looking forward and, you know, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:48

don't want to go back and, and face the demons that are, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:51

know, that have held me back in the past. And so it's just move

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:55

forward. But the reality is, when we look back, and we take a

Tony Martignetti: 00:22:58

look at some of the things that we've we've had, that we've

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:01

overcome, we realize that that's the gold that allows us to be

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:05

more powerful, you know, so I'll use an example. And I'll use an

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:09

example from the, from the book, too, which is Michael O'Brien,

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:13

you know, this idea that, like he, he was this person who

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:16

worked really hard, like, was in the, you know, pharmaceutical

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:20

sales industry, you know, you know, really lived the lifestyle

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:25

was always happy, making a lot of money. And then all sudden,

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:28

he had this like, this, this bike crash, I mean, catastrophic

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:34

bike crash, he hit a semi, you know, like a big truck. And it

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:40

like, was devastating for him. I mean, he had to have like,

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:44

multiple surgeries. And it was really tough on him. And so, but

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:48

it had, it had him questioning how he was living, you know, and

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:55

it wasn't until the QI healed that he realized that how he was

Tony Martignetti: 00:23:59

living was a part of like, what he was stuck in, he was stuck in

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:04

that path. And what he wanted to do is change the way that he was

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:07

doing some of that. And so now his path was about being more

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:11

mindful, actually, you know, leaning into being a mindfulness

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:15

coach. And, you know, being someone who helps other people

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:18

slow down and be more intentional in their lives,

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:21

because that's what he realized about himself is being

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:23

intentional. So there's something about that, which I

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:27

think always makes me think, if you don't look back at those

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:31

things that have changed you at or have created a change in your

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:35

life and use them as lessons, then you might just continue on

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:39

the same path and say, Okay, well now I'll just continue to

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:43

do to find another job, go do that same thing. But instead, he

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:46

saw that he wanted to change the way things work. So looking back

Tony Martignetti: 00:24:50

allowed him to change his trajectory. Thank

Susan Ney: 00:24:53

you. Excellent example. Lesson four Are you'd

Susan Ney: 00:25:00

shared that your book is based on a number of lessons are going

Susan Ney: 00:25:03

to take us to the lesson titled, failing forward, the art of

Susan Ney: 00:25:08

navigating setbacks. And I underlined here another key

Susan Ney: 00:25:13

element of failing forward is experimentation, trying new

Susan Ney: 00:25:17

things, testing different approaches to achieve your

Susan Ney: 00:25:20

goals. Can you elaborate further?

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:23

Yeah, I mean, we, I think experimentation will

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:26

hit a chord with a lot of people who, who are in the scientific

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:30

fields, but we all need to be experimenting and trying things.

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:34

And don't, you know, we have to embrace the failure along the

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:37

way. Because ultimately, there are going to be failures. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:43

we're going to learn from them. But it's about what we do with

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:46

those failures, that allows us to continue to move in the right

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:49

direction. And in each one of them builds on on the next step.

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:54

So I think it's so such a beautiful way to think about our

Tony Martignetti: 00:25:58

navigation through life is, what is the next the next experiment

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:02

that I'm willing to take? And at what point will I pivot? You

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:09

know, is there a need for me to, to shift from this thing to the

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:14

next thing? You know, if I find that, you know, I'm in

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:17

marketing, and I like it, but there's, it's not really working

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:21

out for me, and I'm not feeling as excited about it. Maybe PR is

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:25

the next thing for me. And I need to make quite a little bit

Tony Martignetti: 00:26:28

of a shift into PR and try that up.

Susan Ney: 00:26:32

Yeah, like you with your choosing not to continue

Susan Ney: 00:26:35

within the financial sector. Yeah. I gotta go to Lesson

Susan Ney: 00:26:40

Seven, fight for what you believe in. And Dolores Hirshman

Susan Ney: 00:26:45

story, overcoming self doubt and finding clarity. And I loved her

Susan Ney: 00:26:50

sharing, and I'm going to quote here, we are happy, we are happy

Susan Ney: 00:26:53

to drive 60 miles per hour on the highway. All we have is our

Susan Ney: 00:26:57

car headlights to show us the way. In every second of driving,

Susan Ney: 00:27:02

the vision is revealed. Every single action reveals the next

Susan Ney: 00:27:06

action. So true. And really, our vision is limited only with what

Susan Ney: 00:27:12

is illuminated directly before us. And it is about replacing

Susan Ney: 00:27:17

fear. Especially outside that illuminated area with curiosity

Susan Ney: 00:27:23

that that lovely see of your values. And as you note,

Susan Ney: 00:27:29

everything looks like a challenge when you're middle of

Susan Ney: 00:27:31

the doubts, but unless we take those steps, we're not going to

Susan Ney: 00:27:34

get to where we're going.

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:37

Yes, yeah. 100% that's, I'm glad you bring

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:40

this up. Because I think there's something about that which some

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:43

people think, well, you know, you need to have a vision, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:45

need to have a clear vision of the future. That's what leaders

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:48

do. And sure you paint a vision, but it doesn't make it any

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:52

easier for you to be able to go through it to to actually take

Tony Martignetti: 00:27:56

the steps. The execution of that vision is so requires the

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:01

murkiness that we have to navigate the fear and the

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:04

uncertainties that we go through. And so that's really

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:07

the experience that we have to have, even in pursuit of our

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:12

vision. And I think that's where the curiosity is, is comes into

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:17

play. So you kind of know, what is this experience? I'm on what

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:20

is going to be around the corner, what is going to be the

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:22

things that we might see, as we're going through this

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:24

journey.

Susan Ney: 00:28:25

And as I listen to you, I think of how important

Susan Ney: 00:28:28

connection is on that journey. Yes, you know, just just those

Susan Ney: 00:28:32

those relationships, those reaching outs, those, you know,

Susan Ney: 00:28:36

you're not the only one who has walked this path of you know,

Susan Ney: 00:28:39

who else might be on the journey? Who can you reach out

Susan Ney: 00:28:42

to to learn from to mentor with, or be a mentor? Yeah, so

Susan Ney: 00:28:46

important. Yeah,

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:47

I couldn't agree more. And, and I always

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:49

say, you know, that that's a key marker of success is being able

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:53

to ask for help. And to know that you're not alone in this

Tony Martignetti: 00:28:57

journey is, it's so important because people think that things

Tony Martignetti: 00:29:01

get done by one person working alone, but rarely is it

Susan Ney: 00:29:06

now, and it goes back to the authenticity too, because

Susan Ney: 00:29:08

the more people, especially the leaders, have been authentic,

Susan Ney: 00:29:12

then I think people are much more willing to reach out and to

Susan Ney: 00:29:15

be be vulnerable and to take that risk, feel that fear and,

Susan Ney: 00:29:21

and connect in and then we need that with our, you know, the

Susan Ney: 00:29:24

leaders, people aspiring to be leaders of of Yeah, reaching out

Susan Ney: 00:29:31

and learning from others experiences. I'm going to now

Susan Ney: 00:29:36

turn to hell, Greg Gregerson. I hope I'm pronouncing that

Susan Ney: 00:29:39

correctly. His story the journey of self discovery through the

Susan Ney: 00:29:42

power of questions and how refers to what he terms is the

Susan Ney: 00:29:45

question burst that got my attention. Please tell us more

Susan Ney: 00:29:49

about what is the question first and how, why, how and why can

Susan Ney: 00:29:54

this be really effective?

Tony Martignetti: 00:29:56

Well, first of all, I'll just say how was

Tony Martignetti: 00:29:59

amazing guy is because I've been such a big fan of his for a long

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:04

time. But, you know, when he, when I've looked at his journey,

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:07

I then realize why he was such a big fan of questions, because he

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:11

was, you know, always questioning, you know, having to

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:16

build up these questions along the way about like, how do I

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:18

please that my father, how do I, you know, kind of make sure that

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:22

I show up in the right way. And, and these question bursts came

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:26

from his work with a lot of these leaders along the way

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:29

that, you know, helped him to think about how to explore

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:33

issues in the most profound way. So the question Question bars

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:37

are really about, like, you know, bringing in these

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:40

brainstorming effects to problem and, you know, not stopping at

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:46

just the first thing that shows up, we have to go deeper, we're

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:49

so quick to close the aperture and the camera and say, okay,

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:54

you know, we're done, we took the picture, we're done. But

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:56

instead, we gotta widen it out. And we need to make sure that we

Tony Martignetti: 00:30:58

stay a little bit wider for longer, so that we can have more

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:04

perspectives go a little deeper, and allow ourselves to get to

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:08

have more questions. As opposed to go right to the answer.

Susan Ney: 00:31:14

Yeah, we don't have to have the answer right away.

Susan Ney: 00:31:19

Excellent. Thank you. And I'm going to remember those question

Susan Ney: 00:31:21

bursts. I love love. I love the term. Now, Jeffrey Shaw, in his

Susan Ney: 00:31:26

story, the path to a sustainable and fulfilling and

Susan Ney: 00:31:29

entrepreneurial life. I underlined something that came

Susan Ney: 00:31:32

into your mind as you interviewed him. The idea and I

Susan Ney: 00:31:36

think that's really takes us from the last question, the idea

Susan Ney: 00:31:40

of slowing down to go fast.

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:43

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting how,

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:46

especially with Jeff, Jeffrey Shaw, I call them Jeff. So he,

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:53

he really had me thinking about this, because he had a moment

Tony Martignetti: 00:31:56

where he was sitting back in, in his Adirondack chair in

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:00

Connecticut and selling his house. And he reflected on, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:04

know, some of the things that were going on in his life. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:07

he had been on an amazing journey. He's been, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:10

one of the most sought after photographers in the industry.

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:14

And yet, you know, here he was thinking about, you know, what's

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:17

next? What's the next thing he's gonna lean into? And I think

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:21

it's so important for us to sometimes step back and say,

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:25

what is it that, you know, I'm being I'm forcing myself into

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:29

how can I slow down and think differently about the approach

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:32

I'm taking, because if we're constantly in the Go mode,

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:35

constantly trying to, to achieve that next level and forcing

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:39

ourselves, then we're not really going to be able to be in the

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:42

most powerful mindset for us, slowing down allows us to think,

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:48

be intentional, and allow us to connect with what's most

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:51

important to us, so that we can then move forward in the most

Tony Martignetti: 00:32:55

powerful way.

Susan Ney: 00:32:57

I think it's really important for our listeners to

Susan Ney: 00:32:59

hear that, because certainly my experience working as a

Susan Ney: 00:33:03

consultant is that it's becoming more and more difficult to make

Susan Ney: 00:33:07

that time, you know, that the expectations on people, it's

Susan Ney: 00:33:12

just more and more more and more and more. And we have to make

Susan Ney: 00:33:15

that time that being in the moment, sitting in that are on

Susan Ney: 00:33:20

deck chair, around that campfire. Yeah. And and and

Susan Ney: 00:33:26

taking that time to consider the ripples of consider the next

Susan Ney: 00:33:31

steps. Yeah. So

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:33

yeah, one of the things that I'll just share

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:35

as an add on to that as to say, you know, it's the patterns that

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:38

we get stuck in. I mean, I've often say that I'm a pattern

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:41

breaker, because I help people to think what is a pattern that

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:46

I am in? That's not serving me? And, and where do I need to

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:51

break that pattern? Not to say that all patterns are bad. Some

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:55

of them are fantastic, and they're there for a good reason.

Tony Martignetti: 00:33:58

But we have to sometimes sit back and question, is this a

Tony Martignetti: 00:34:02

pattern that I'm stuck in? That has me, you know, in a place

Tony Martignetti: 00:34:06

where I'm not even seeing it? So that was what we need to

Tony Martignetti: 00:34:11

sometimes question ourselves. And if we're going too fast, we

Tony Martignetti: 00:34:15

will not see it. We got to slow down to actually see the matrix.

Tony Martignetti: 00:34:19

Yeah, if you know what I mean. Yeah, I

Susan Ney: 00:34:21

do very much. So thank you. Now in your final

Susan Ney: 00:34:24

chapter, you share the your hope and writing the book was to

Susan Ney: 00:34:26

share the wisdom contained in the conversations and to offer a

Susan Ney: 00:34:30

challenge to your readers. Yes. Now you listed a number of

Susan Ney: 00:34:34

questions for your readers to reflect on. Now. One of these

Susan Ney: 00:34:37

was what are your personal flash points? And how have they

Susan Ney: 00:34:42

changed the course of your life? And that one left me recognizing

Susan Ney: 00:34:47

the significant importance of how we really again, don't take

Susan Ney: 00:34:52

the time to do that deep thinking? Any tips on And it is

Susan Ney: 00:35:00

so critically important. Any tips on what have you found

Susan Ney: 00:35:04

useful?

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:05

Yeah, I mean, one of the first things you can

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:07

do, and it's so great that you started with, before we got into

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:11

this, this idea of slowing down, you can, you know, think your

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:16

way out of this and say, Okay, this is a mental exercise, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:20

know, get into your heart, and to get into your heart, and you

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:24

just slow down and say, Okay, if I, if I really think, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:28

look back into my journey, what were the things that had had my,

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:34

my, my emotions come alive, and like my heart come alive, and

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:39

you know, the things that have challenged me emotionally. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:44

those are the things that are the flash points, if it was

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:47

something that like, oh, I, I passed the big exam, and that

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:51

was like a big deal. Who cares? That's nice. But at the end of

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:55

the day, we're talking about those things that have, you

Tony Martignetti: 00:35:57

know, shifted your life. And that usually happens in your

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:02

emotional state, not just in your mental state.

Susan Ney: 00:36:06

So any tips for finding that time for for the

Susan Ney: 00:36:11

harried individuals listening to this podcast? What have you

Susan Ney: 00:36:16

found like with getting up earlier, just driving somewhere

Susan Ney: 00:36:21

before you go home to take that, that quiet time? Any any

Susan Ney: 00:36:25

thoughts?

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:26

I do have a thought on this, I have two two

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:28

thoughts. Number one is, if you want to have more impact in

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:32

general and your life and have this clarity, you know, spending

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:37

a half hour to an hour, every Sunday, to do what I call a

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:44

weekly spark. What that means is basically giving yourself a

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:48

chance to reflect on your past week, and your future week. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:53

just anything else that you need to deeply think about. But just

Tony Martignetti: 00:36:56

make sure that you create a space for that. That means make

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:00

sure that there's no interruptions, make sure that

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:02

it's just time, quiet time for you to think deeply. Now, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:07

think, an hour of time to think deeply, once a week, is not

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:13

asking too much of yourself. You know, it would be great if you

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:18

could do that once a day. But once a week, sitting down and

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:23

having some quiet contemplation will allow you to dig deep and

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:28

contemplate any question you want to ask yourself, or learn

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:32

about yourself or you know, maybe change about the way

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:35

things are. So that's one way. The other way is to take a

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:40

vacation, take a big vacation. One of the things I've learned

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:43

about myself and I've shared with others, is that I even when

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:47

I started my business, the first thing I did after being in

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:50

business for about a few months, as I took a month off and went

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:54

to India. And what was cool about it is that I went with

Tony Martignetti: 00:37:59

people I didn't know. And it was going to be a really deep

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:05

immersion into a world that didn't know never been to India

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:08

before India before. And most people think I was crazy,

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:13

because I'm like, you just started a business. Why are you

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:15

leaving. But the reality is, by leaving, I actually was able to

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:20

get my mind off of the work and spend some time in it with a

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:26

fresh perspective. And when I came back, I was able to have a

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:30

very different view on how things are. And I did it again.

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:35

Two years ago, I went and climbed Kilimanjaro and I was

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:38

away for Yeah, it was away for about a month because I did that

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:42

and I did a safari. And again, you just have this, like take a

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:46

step back. Think where am I? What am I doing the work that

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:50

really still lights me up? And all that. And I think there's

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:54

something about that, which is to say, even for the most

Tony Martignetti: 00:38:57

busiest people every once in a while just taking even a weekend

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:00

away. And checking in with yourself.

Susan Ney: 00:39:04

Yeah, that was thinking just start small. They

Susan Ney: 00:39:07

can't find an hour find 10 minutes. And if you can't take a

Susan Ney: 00:39:10

long vacation, get away for a weekend or even a Yeah, a day of

Susan Ney: 00:39:14

just taking some time. So yeah. And you often are you offer

Susan Ney: 00:39:21

wisdom and your closing comments like staying grounded. Any other

Susan Ney: 00:39:27

closing comments, some things perhaps I'm gonna ask you about

Susan Ney: 00:39:30

before we bring the podcast to a close? Well,

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:34

the one thing I'll just share, this is

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:36

something that I think is really an important part of this is to

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:38

say in the book wasn't the intention when I started the

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:43

book was one thing and when I finished the book, I felt like

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:46

there was something else that was showing up for me. And that

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:49

was about this idea that like the more we connect with

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:52

ourselves more deeply. The more we can connect better with

Tony Martignetti: 00:39:55

others, which I know that that might be obvious, but I didn't

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:00

really quite see that connection with others was the was the end

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:05

result. But that's what is the reality is sometimes people

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:10

think like, Oh, I gotta connect with other people and, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:12

that's what's going to make the difference. But you can't do

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:16

that until you know yourself. Yourself allows you to be able

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:21

to have, you know, what is it that I want to share? What is it

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:25

that is me, you know, how do I share me with others, and do it

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:29

in a way that's comfortable? And, and something that doesn't

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:34

feel unnatural? That that takes a little bit of practice and

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:38

getting used to.

Susan Ney: 00:40:41

And it's a connection at such a deeper level? Yes,

Susan Ney: 00:40:45

exactly. You know, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:46

mean, you know, one of the things I do a

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:48

lot of talk talks about is this idea of like, the art of

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:52

curiosity, conversations and about networking. And, you know,

Tony Martignetti: 00:40:56

oftentimes people will talk about, like, you know, in the

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:00

first seven seconds of meeting somebody, you're trying to

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:02

impress them. So use your title, you use your position. And I And

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:07

I'm telling the people I talked to like, hey, look, don't do

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:11

that. Don't use your title. Instead, try and connect with

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:14

people on a more human level, ask them things about what

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:17

what's important to them, and ask them things that will make

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:20

them want to have a further conversation as opposed to

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:23

worrying about if they measure up to you or if you measure up

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:26

to them. That stuff is like what draws people away from you.

Susan Ney: 00:41:32

Yeah, make it make it feel welcoming. Yeah. Yeah, like

Susan Ney: 00:41:35

sitting around a campfire?

Tony Martignetti: 00:41:37

Exactly. Exactly.

Susan Ney: 00:41:40

Oh, well, you can tell how much and I'd forgotten

Susan Ney: 00:41:44

about the Michael's story. So you're, you're encouraging me to

Susan Ney: 00:41:47

go back and tend to read again, I got so much out of reading the

Susan Ney: 00:41:52

book. And it's the book is available through your

Susan Ney: 00:41:57

publisher, Routledge. And on Amazon. I put your contact

Susan Ney: 00:42:03

information, the links to the book and your podcasts, I'll put

Susan Ney: 00:42:07

the other book as well, and your TED talks in there. So for

Susan Ney: 00:42:11

anyone who's interested in connecting with you, anything

Susan Ney: 00:42:15

about your first book that you'd like to share with our listeners

Susan Ney: 00:42:18

before we close? Sure,

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:20

I'm happy to first of all, the first book is

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:22

called climbing the right mountain. And in this book, I

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:27

It's a very succinct book, I should say it's not super long,

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:31

which is intentional, I wanted to make sure that people would

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:34

read it. I know a lot of people pick up books and they don't

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:39

read all the way through. But the the book is really about

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:42

defining success on our own terms. And, you know, ensuring

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:47

that when we start on our ascent in our career in life, that we

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:52

occasionally check in with ourselves and say, Okay, what is

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:54

it? That's really, you know, what do I want? Have I defined

Tony Martignetti: 00:42:58

that on my terms, and not just looking at it from the

Tony Martignetti: 00:43:01

happiness, but more from a deep seated fulfillment? What is was

Tony Martignetti: 00:43:06

it that made me feel fulfilled, and not wait till I get to some

Tony Martignetti: 00:43:11

unknown place to feel happy or fulfilled, instead, it's about

Tony Martignetti: 00:43:17

feeling that along the way of your journey,

Susan Ney: 00:43:21

wonderful. It's, it's interesting, because I know, too

Susan Ney: 00:43:26

many times, outplacement professionals, when they start

Susan Ney: 00:43:30

working with an individual who has been moved out of an

Susan Ney: 00:43:34

organization, and start doing the tests, like the Berkman's

Susan Ney: 00:43:38

and the insights, and those kinds of things, help the

Susan Ney: 00:43:43

individual they're working with, see how completely wrong their

Susan Ney: 00:43:51

career path had been to that point, you know, and I'll be

Susan Ney: 00:43:56

somebody in perhaps a finite finance field, who is an

Susan Ney: 00:44:02

incredibly creative individual who has completely stymied that

Susan Ney: 00:44:08

part of themselves. And, and so watching them literally blossom,

Susan Ney: 00:44:14

when they realize that they've been in the wrong field all

Susan Ney: 00:44:17

along. And finally find something unfortunately, through

Susan Ney: 00:44:21

that Flashpoint. Yeah. That is so much more in line with who

Susan Ney: 00:44:26

they are as an individual and really what their passion is,

Susan Ney: 00:44:31

and that, you know, that they have an opportunity of, of doing

Susan Ney: 00:44:34

differently going forward, you know, unfortunate through an

Susan Ney: 00:44:38

unfortunate circumstance but but is that you know, it's it's

Susan Ney: 00:44:42

going back and is about those those pivot points that

Susan Ney: 00:44:46

sometimes, you know, come on and left field for us but end up

Susan Ney: 00:44:50

being a blessing in disguise.

Tony Martignetti: 00:44:52

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I

Tony Martignetti: 00:44:53

mean, there's like, you know, I said this earlier, somebody on a

Tony Martignetti: 00:44:56

call, is this happening to you or happening for you and I think

Tony Martignetti: 00:44:59

oftentimes It's happening for us, even though it doesn't feel

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:02

like it in the moment. And I think one of the things that

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:06

comes to mind around what you just shared, and I don't mean to

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:09

be bashing finance, because I think finance is a fantastic

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:12

field, especially if you love it. But I think one of the

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:16

things that comes to mind or at the story you shared, is this

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:20

idea that we, the work I do, at the core essence of it all is,

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:25

is to get people to light that spark inside of them so that

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:28

they feel like the flame can turn into, into something that

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:33

illuminates them from the outside from the inside out. And

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:37

I think illuminating people is what I do want them to feel

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:40

illuminated. But ultimately, there's a lot of people who are

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:43

walking around with like this dim light inside of them, they

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:47

just feels like yeah, okay, I'm just going through the motions,

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:49

and, you know, whatever, you know, like, this is work, and I

Tony Martignetti: 00:45:52

get paid, but I don't think that's really serving anybody.

Susan Ney: 00:45:57

Yeah, and certainly the engagement statistics that

Susan Ney: 00:46:00

we're seeing, you know, and we referenced burnout earlier.

Susan Ney: 00:46:04

There's there's too many of those individuals that yeah, we

Susan Ney: 00:46:07

need to get some gasoline on that spark inside them and and

Susan Ney: 00:46:12

let it glow so much brighter. So Wow, am I ever grateful that the

Susan Ney: 00:46:18

opportunity to connect him with you and to allow you to talk a

Susan Ney: 00:46:22

little bit more about your book and hopefully, make it just that

Susan Ney: 00:46:25

much more available to, to our listeners to people? Tony, thank

Susan Ney: 00:46:30

you for making the time to be here on HR inside out today.

Tony Martignetti: 00:46:35

It was wonderful. Thank you so much for

Tony Martignetti: 00:46:37

having me. I really enjoyed your questions and, you know, just

Tony Martignetti: 00:46:40

loved that you really dug into the book. And you know, just so

Tony Martignetti: 00:46:44

so grateful. And

Susan Ney: 00:46:46

for our listeners, you could see in the myriad of

Susan Ney: 00:46:48

ways that I've taken Tony and the questions how much there is

Susan Ney: 00:46:52

in the book to learn from and so many phenomenal real life

Susan Ney: 00:46:56

experiences from from the people that he interviewed real people

Susan Ney: 00:47:01

with real experiences and taking taking it forward. It is time

Susan Ney: 00:47:05

for us to bring the podcast to a close again, Tony, I love the

Susan Ney: 00:47:10

work you're doing it is Tony and Susan saying goodbye. Remember,

Susan Ney: 00:47:16

dare to soar because we believe you can't find that spark within

Susan Ney: 00:47:21

yourself if it's if it's starting to to fade on you. And,

Susan Ney: 00:47:26

and do connect him with Tony and he's got you said 250 Now

Susan Ney: 00:47:31

podcasts. Yeah, I've taken a listen to a few of them and

Susan Ney: 00:47:34

they're they're excellent as well. So thanks for being with

Susan Ney: 00:47:37

us, everybody and have a wonderful rest of your day.

Susan Ney: 00:47:41

Thank you. Take care. Bye for now.