Understanding and Dealing with Negativity Bias with Guest Cheryl Brewster | HR 68

Susan Ney: 00:00:02

Hi. Welcome to the podcast HR inside out. I'm your

Susan Ney: 00:00:06

host Susan Bay. And my guest today is Cheryl Brewster, a

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reinvention specialist. And I'm going to tell you a little bit

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more about Sheryl. First of all, welcome.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:00:17

Thank you, Susan.

Susan Ney: 00:00:20

For our listeners who are expecting this to be a

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podcast on work different 10 truths for winning in the people

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age. Kate bravery will be joining us on the march podcast,

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not this month as originally anticipated. So hopefully you'll

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join in next month. But today, we are very, very lucky to have

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Cheryl here. And she's going to talk to us about something that

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can so easily get in the way of our being able to present our

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very best that of negativity bias. So Cheryl, I can't wait to

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dive in. But first of all, I'd like to say a little bit about

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you if you're okay with that. transition specialist at

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transformational speaker a spiritual mentor. Cheryl

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inspires individuals and organizations keen to make a big

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difference in the world, and to find the hidden treasure in

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challenge. Now Cheryl's story is one of extraordinary trust and

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the ability to ride the waves of change. In 2004, she left a

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successful career in the corporate world to follow a

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calling. She at that point founded the intuitive life and

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through that provides intuitive consultations, workshops,

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seminars, speaking and coaching programs. She works to foster

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empowered decision making encourages creativity, improved

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working relationships, and practical strategies for

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meaningful and creative solutions. Now, in 2010, a

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family health crisis plunged Cheryl, deep into her own dark

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night of the soul, testing every ounce of her faith and her

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stamina. As a result, Cheryl discovered with the right

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mindset, severe challenges can be catalysts to both powerful

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and positive change. She is widely respected for her talents

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and abilities, she possesses a rare gift of inspiring the very

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best in both people and organizations, finding better

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outcomes communication, connection and resiliency. She

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has over the course of her career, consulted and coached

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individuals, executives, leaders, and social and business

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projects, company directors, naturopaths entrepreneurs, the

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list goes on. clients who've worked with Cheryl come away,

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inspired, transformed and fully committed to living the deeper

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meaning of their lives with increased clarity, confidence

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and self trust. And I know that that's certainly been my

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experience with her. I also know that she's a lifelong learner.

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And I know that she's currently working on her instructional

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diploma. And through that she shared some research from one of

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the assignments that she has been doing, it certainly caught

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my attention. And so I asked her to join us and talk more about

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her learning and her insights. Starting with Cheryl, if we

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could, what is negativity bias? And then let's move to like

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jumping right in? Why is it so important for us to understand

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this? And what are some tools that we should be having in our

Susan Ney: 00:03:38

toolkits to actually deal with it? So I am so excited to learn

Susan Ney: 00:03:43

about this. And to share that with our listeners, over to you

Susan Ney: 00:03:48

please, enough for me.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:03:52

Well, thank you so much for having me as a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:03:54

guest, I appreciate the work that you're doing and really

Cheryl Brewster: 00:03:57

inspiring people in working communities and you know, just

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:01

to lead from their best selves. So I think negativity bias is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:06

hugely important to understand because it does have a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:09

biological physical component that I think is easy to forget.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:14

Because, you know, if we look at negativity bias, it's related to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:18

worry, fear, you know, anxiety and in all those, what I call

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:23

the hairball of the soul emotions. So, what I appreciated

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in my research was the neuroscience behind what it is

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and where it evolves from. So basically, scientists believe

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that we have a built in negativity bias from you know,

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the brain is concerned, especially the the left

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hemisphere of the brain is concerned with keeping the body

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safe. So it literally goes on overdrive, it's looking looking

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for the threats to keep us safe. So if that's not kind of

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balanced out with the right hand side of the brain, the creative

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side, the you know, the side that sees the bigger picture, we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:04:58

can get ourselves into real Trouble. So from the research

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that I found it a really good metaphor to think of it this

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way, that, you know, we evolved over millions of years, and we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:09

were dodging threats. So if you think of dodging sticks, we were

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:13

dodging threats, and we were chasing food or chasing carrot.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:16

So it's a lot more, it's more important to notice and react to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:21

remember the threats or the sticks than it is, you know, the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:25

comfort or the carrots. So, in the tough environments our

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:28

ancestors lived, they missed out on the carrot, right. So we got

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:32

in the habit of not noticing the carrots, and instead focusing on

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:35

these threats. And before you know it, whoa, we have in our

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:39

genetic DNA, this this propensity to look for the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:43

negative and what you look for, you'll find. So negativity bias

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will show up in many ways, in relationships, it usually now

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:51

the stats are interesting, it usually takes five good

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:53

interactions to make up for a single bad one. And what can

Cheryl Brewster: 00:05:58

happen in relationship, things can be going really well. And if

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:02

you're not used to that you will create you will sub self

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:05

sabotage. So that's why I think it's so important that we really

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:08

understand, you know, get to the bottom of this so that we don't

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:13

keep creating these repeating patterns. So in business, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:19

know, people will work work much harder to avoid losing $100, as

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:23

opposed to making $100. So we're kind of selling ourselves short

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:29

by focusing on the negative and painful experiences are much

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:33

more memorable than pleasurable ones. So we kind of want to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:38

reverse that. And a good way of looking at negativity bias is

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that the brain is kind of pre programmed to look for the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:45

negative and find it, it's like Velcro. It finds it, it

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:49

remembers it, it holds it fast. Whereas pleasurable experiences

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:54

are like Teflon, they just slide right off. It's like, yeah,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:06:57

okay, that was great. But we don't really take the time to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:00

go, wow, that was really good. So we can create these very

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:05

negative self images, the stories we tell ourselves, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:11

goals will come and go, and we'll achieve the goal. But have

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:14

we really grown? Or are we simply repeating the pattern of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:19

needing to prove ourselves. So I've certainly appreciated what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:25

I've learned about negativity bias, because it creates

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:28

awareness, when you have awareness, you have choice. Now,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:31

there's one more piece I want to add on negativity bias, when I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:34

researched it further, I came across a term that I just loved,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:38

it was called negative legacy emotions. And they use the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:42

example of cocaine on the brain that irrational guilt shame. And

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:46

anxiety is kind of like a drug on the brain, it just totally

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:50

takes you out of your, your prefrontal cortex, where you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:53

make executive decision making, and instead, we get a cloudy

Cheryl Brewster: 00:07:57

mind. We're not trusting ourselves, we're feeling

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:02

insecure, that can that can really escalate and cause some

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:06

real problems. And we can see that in the workplace where, for

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:10

example, in the conflict resolution that I'm teaching

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:12

right now, it's like, whoa, like, where did that come from?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:16

Right? On understanding or appreciating that, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:22

someone in the workplace, if their knee jerk reaction is not

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:27

checked, there will be problems. So we want to be very aware of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:33

how we can handle those conflicts from the inside out,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:37

which is okay, you know, what am I feeling using mindfulness

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:41

techniques, etc. So, the nuts and bolts is that, in order for

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:47

us to really work with this, there's a real opportunity here,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:52

which I think is very exciting. So we take a look at these

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:55

negative legacy, Legacy emotions, because they're

Cheryl Brewster: 00:08:58

irrational. And one of the terms that I found that I just loved

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:01

is that these are pre historic emotions. And they have no place

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:08

in our our current lives. And so we have to create an absolute,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:14

uncompromising rule, to not take orders from irrational guilt,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:21

shame and anxiety. So what that means is, we need to create a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:27

habit of embedding optimism in the brain. So we can talk more

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:34

about that but for now, that's why I think it's so important

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:38

the more we know and understand, the more we can not take this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:44

quite so personally, when you know that there's a biology at

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:47

play or you know, guilt is a pretty insidious emotion because

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:54

you're trying to do better and be, you know, your best self and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:09:59

when you find your You're not that unreviewable rule of nope,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:05

I'm not going to listen to the voice wants to, you know, put me

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:09

down. It's like this open and shut rule. Like this door, that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:16

slam says nope, nope, not allowed to enter. So. And this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:21

is where I think that we can really create opportunity by

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:26

using the power of decision to make that rule. And then to also

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:31

make the rule that I am committed to living my best

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:34

self. And, you know, mistakes are a part of learning. So when

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:39

we look for the learning, we have growth, but if we're not

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:44

willing to do that, then we're gonna stay stagnant. In fact,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:48

we're gonna go down, because we're designed to grow. And if

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:53

we're not willing to, you know, to use this in a productive way,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:10:57

we're kind of, we're kind of toast.

Susan Ney: 00:11:00

That makes so much sense. And I love the, the

Susan Ney: 00:11:03

skeleton, the, the Velcro, I just, I think of performance

Susan Ney: 00:11:09

reviews, you know, and how, I don't know that people hear so

Susan Ney: 00:11:14

many of the positives if there's something that's a growth

Susan Ney: 00:11:17

opportunity, and and how so frequently, we perceive that

Susan Ney: 00:11:21

it's just a negative. Yeah, you're in, you're right, you

Susan Ney: 00:11:26

reaching the goals, I don't know that we pat ourselves about the

Susan Ney: 00:11:29

milestones we do tend to focus on, you know, the things that

Susan Ney: 00:11:34

went wrong. I mean, there's that there's a positive about that,

Susan Ney: 00:11:36

because it's the learning and the, what could we do

Susan Ney: 00:11:42

differently or better next time. But as you talk, and what I love

Susan Ney: 00:11:47

is learning that this is all part of this is part of, like,

Susan Ney: 00:11:52

literally years and years and years and years of programming.

Susan Ney: 00:11:57

And we really reflect that also within our school systems. You

Susan Ney: 00:12:03

know, I know my dad caught the sea, and the, you know, good

Susan Ney: 00:12:08

marks, and then you get a bad mark, or what happened here. And

Susan Ney: 00:12:12

so we do tend to reinforce that. But again, that would be

Susan Ney: 00:12:15

natural, because that's been our heritage. So what I'm hearing

Susan Ney: 00:12:20

you say is that, yeah, it's natural that we'd be feeling

Susan Ney: 00:12:25

this this negativity bias. But what we need to be paying

Susan Ney: 00:12:28

attention to is catching ourselves doing it, recognizing

Susan Ney: 00:12:33

where it's coming from, and then making a choice to do

Susan Ney: 00:12:37

differently going forward.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:12:39

Exactly. Yeah. So knowing that we're kind of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:12:42

pre programmed, it's like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm going

Cheryl Brewster: 00:12:48

to be aware that I don't have to keep doing this.

Susan Ney: 00:12:51

When you shared with me a PowerPoint presentation for

Susan Ney: 00:12:54

one of the classes that that you're doing, and you talked

Susan Ney: 00:12:58

about the importance of reflection, and that's, that's

Susan Ney: 00:13:00

part of this catching yourself and recognizing is like, I don't

Susan Ney: 00:13:03

have to keep going down the same, the same road with this

Susan Ney: 00:13:07

stuff. And you You referenced, I don't know who do he is, but you

Susan Ney: 00:13:12

talked about Dewey's four criteria for reflection. And

Susan Ney: 00:13:16

it's very much a self awareness piece, probably the emotional

Susan Ney: 00:13:20

intelligence as well. Can you tell us a little bit more about

Susan Ney: 00:13:23

what are these four criteria that in that reflecting process

Susan Ney: 00:13:29

we should be paying attention to?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:32

Absolutely. John Dewey was the probably the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:35

most influential figure in the past century in regards to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:40

education. So he, he's a, it was fascinating to research his

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:45

life. And basically, the four criteria for reflection that he

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:49

came up to is, and the reason reflection is so important is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:52

that number one, it creates a bridge of meaning. And so what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:13:58

it does is that it helps us make continuity of learning possible,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:03

it ensures that progress, so we learn from our mistakes. So we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:07

we keep moving forward, or we learn, you know, hey, that went

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:10

really well. I'll do that again. So the first thing is, is it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:14

the bridge of meaning. And when we find meaning, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:19

that's, that's basically our values come alive. It's what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:23

keeps us alive. So I really appreciated that as I did the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:30

research and did my own reflective writing practices for

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:33

the class and then share that PowerPoint. We something that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:38

John Dewey said is that experiences don't transform us.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:44

It's reflecting on the experiences that transform. So

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:49

from my own experience of working deeper with a reflective

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:51

process, it's true, like I was amazed and very grateful to go

Cheryl Brewster: 00:14:57

deeper into my own reflection because I I've found a lot of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:01

insight that I would have missed otherwise. So number one, the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:04

bridge of meeting number two, the reflection is systematic,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:09

rigorous, disciplined, and rooted in scientific inquiry.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:16

And I like that too, because it's literally about telling the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:19

truth to yourself. And, you know, that's a courageous act,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:24

which ties into the scale of consciousness, which is a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:27

different matter. But the, the work of David Hawkins, where all

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:34

the negative emotion that we're dealing with, as soon as we have

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:36

courage, we rise up that scale of consciousness, we rise up

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:41

that scale of emotion. And I think that really ties into this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:44

because even though you might have a really negative emotion

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:48

that you're feeling, it's like, it's okay, this is part of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:50

evolution, this is part of growth. So it becomes a very

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:54

empowered way of making true change in your life. So that's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:15:59

the second criteria for reflective inquiry, which is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:04

that it's systematic, it's rigorous, it's disciplined, it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:07

not this fluffy stuff. The third thing is that it needs now this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:12

was fascinating. It needs to happen in community. Oh,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:15

interesting. Yeah, that I love that because you know, me, I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:20

teach all the classes, everyone sharing, but so the third

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:24

criteria is that needs to happen in community in interaction with

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:28

others. And then the fourth one that that ties into that is that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:32

it requires attitudes that value the personal and the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:37

intellectual growth of self and others. So Fascinating, isn't

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:41

it, that in order for true transformation to occur, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:16:45

need to reflect on it, and then you need to share it.

Susan Ney: 00:16:49

So the community piece, because that can be

Susan Ney: 00:16:56

tough, especially if you're dealing with stuff that you're

Susan Ney: 00:17:00

not feeling comfortable with? What what might that look like

Susan Ney: 00:17:03

in a work environment? But that'd be with a colleague,

Susan Ney: 00:17:06

would that be? I guess it would be situational. But can you

Susan Ney: 00:17:10

think of an example? Yeah,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:12

well, in a, in a work environment, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:17

and I think that this comes back to how we do anything is how we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:20

do everything, whether it's a person or an organization. So I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:24

think the first question is to be aware, like, how am I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:30

feeling? Do I feel like I'm in a threatening situation, because

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:35

our lens will color our perception. So in a work

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:40

situation, it's okay, if I'm telling the truth to myself,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:44

then having the skill set to be able to communicate that truth

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:47

to somebody else in a mutually respectful way. So this is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:50

where, you know, we have nonviolent communication. And we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:53

also I think, have a piece of emotional intelligence here,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:17:57

which is to say, you don't know what's going on in someone's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:00

day. And remembering that negativity bias, kind of is a is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:09

a real clue to how personally am I taking this? Take this as

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:13

personally as I am. And I think that's where we really get into

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:16

trouble.

Susan Ney: 00:18:18

And love the reminder too, that we really don't know

Susan Ney: 00:18:20

what's happening on somebody else's world. Yeah. And yeah,

Susan Ney: 00:18:28

are part of self awareness. And I would think reflection would

Susan Ney: 00:18:33

be one of the tools to deal with negativity bias, you talk about

Susan Ney: 00:18:39

a number of other tools that are very helpful for people when

Susan Ney: 00:18:43

they are finding themselves in kind of that space.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:48

Yeah. So what I did in my PowerPoint was put

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:53

together, okay, these are quick, fast, easy tools that have a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:18:58

scientific basis for them. They work based in science. So the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:06

first thing is to breathe. You know, and just that, that breath

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:12

that sort of three breaths just to slow down the physiology.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:15

Now, here's the interesting thing about negative emotion is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:19

that bang, before you know it, it's there. Like it's fast. So,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:25

so a big part of reflection then is reviewing your day, what went

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:30

well? What would you do differently? And also to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:33

rehearse if that situation happened again, how would you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:37

handle it this time? And that goes a long way in really

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:43

supporting effective conflict resolution, because at the end

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:46

of the day, you know, sure people make mistakes, but we all

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:51

make mistakes. And I think a great way of looking at how

Cheryl Brewster: 00:19:57

personally we take things is you know, It often says more about

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:01

us than it does the other person. Because you're in charge

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:05

of your destiny, not somebody else. True. Oh. So catch

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:10

yourself know that the negativity bias is going to be

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:13

there. And course correct as fast as you can. And how do you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:16

do that? Number one, the breath. And number two, I love this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:21

exercise, letting the good in. So again, if we go back to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:26

positive, negative bias and emotion, the other example to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:31

use is, when good things happen to you, it's kind of like water

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:36

going through a sieve in the brain, it just goes right

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:39

through, you're not noticing, because you're not our genetics

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:43

are trained, trained not to notice. Whereas if it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:47

something negative, it's like a chunk of coal, it's in that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:50

sieve, and it, it's a big one. And so. So the thing to do then

Cheryl Brewster: 00:20:55

is to take 1020 30 seconds, Max doesn't take long to let the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:00

good in. So to notice what was good about your life that day,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:07

and not only to notice it, but use that 10 or 20 seconds to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:10

just really breathe and, and savor it. Like Like, even right

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:15

now, we all did that and just went, Yeah, that was good today,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:21

that didn't feel good today. And it's incredibly fast. So the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:28

science is saying do that six times a day, you're embedding

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:34

positive, you're embedding the good, you're noticing the good

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:40

more, which means that your quality of your experience is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:45

increasing as well. So when you feel better, you're more

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:49

optimistic, you're looking for the good, you're more creative,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:53

the prefrontal cortex is free. It's not bogged down, you have

Cheryl Brewster: 00:21:58

access to it, which is really important for decision making.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:03

And you know, post COVID, our whole worlds got changed upside

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:08

down. We're still dealing with it. So just a reminder, hey, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:14

know what you met, we all went through something big. And so

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:17

it's like, again, it can be that knee jerk reaction where if you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:22

had something traumatic happen, you're on guard, you're looking

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:26

for it. And so you want you want to balance that out. And you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:32

also want to recognize that negativity bias will promote

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:36

worry, and worry will promote a loss of trust in yourself, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:44

lead to those feelings of low self esteem. And, and I think

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:49

the big one too, is we can fall into compromising ourselves, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:55

feeling incompetent. And you know, back in the corporate

Cheryl Brewster: 00:22:59

world, I should remember sitting at my desk, you know, I used to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:03

work with bills, material and sales, and I'm worried about the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:06

formulas Did I do the math, right? And, man, I'd be sitting

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:10

there literally having a quiet panic attack, looking around

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:13

everyone else going open, they're so calm. I'm the only

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:17

one right? Well, it's like, and so I did a real number on myself

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:22

way back then. And it was needless and painful. So

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:27

painful. So it's like, okay, I appreciate that, yes, we will go

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:33

through pain. So let's give it a productive purpose. So we can

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:37

change the pattern, we could transform that pattern, we can

Cheryl Brewster: 00:23:41

evolve it, we can grow it.

Susan Ney: 00:23:44

And I suspect, as you say, with this being all well

Susan Ney: 00:23:49

documented in scientific research now, that the more you

Susan Ney: 00:23:53

do something like that, where you catch yourself and you, you

Susan Ney: 00:23:57

take a look at the positive or you allow the positive in that

Susan Ney: 00:23:59

you really are building more neural transmitters or whatever

Susan Ney: 00:24:04

they're called, so that it becomes easier to do it with

Susan Ney: 00:24:06

with practice.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:08

Exactly. And that's why it's so exciting.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:10

Because, I mean, we've been hearing about the neuroscience

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:12

for years, what wires together fires together. And the truth

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:18

is, it's like wow, okay, I am actually physically changing my

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:23

brain by doing this. And so this, this rule, we're like, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:30

know, what do I really want because the clearer we are and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:37

and that was a really interesting piece to discover in

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:40

the research as well. Do we give ourselves permission to know

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:44

what it is we really want? And, and part of the research so they

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:49

did to which is the next component is the power of all

Cheryl Brewster: 00:24:54

and wonder.

Susan Ney: 00:24:57

I want to hear more about that. I just, I'd heard

Susan Ney: 00:25:00

So, instead of just saying, how was your day? What good happened

Susan Ney: 00:25:06

to you today? You know, if we started to greet one another

Susan Ney: 00:25:09

with tell me something good that's happened to your you

Susan Ney: 00:25:12

know, if you're a mom, with your kids coming coming home from

Susan Ney: 00:25:15

school, what good happened to you today instead of, you know,

Susan Ney: 00:25:19

how was your day again would start to build that muscle and

Susan Ney: 00:25:25

to make that more natural, and just yeah, just feels good even

Susan Ney: 00:25:29

saying it. Okay. Okay, let's, let's go the water and I'm

Susan Ney: 00:25:33

getting excited.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:37

Yeah, cuz you know what wonder and awe are

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:40

juicy. And it's like, Who wouldn't want that? And it's,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:44

it's, it's our birthright, you know, as much as we're wired

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:47

with a negativity bias. We're also wired for happiness and joy

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:52

and peace of mind. And, and I, it's just a reminder that that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:25:56

they go together and the wonder and the awe will put us back

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:00

into, you know, the balance of both sides of the brain. So the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:07

research I'm wondering is, is the I mean, look at Einstein,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:13

and Imagination is more important than knowledge. When

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:16

we go into the wonder and the awe, it reminds me of, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:20

when you're a kid, and you don't want to mow the lawn, and but if

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:24

there's a good looking guy next door, it's like, yeah, oh, no.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:28

Like, suddenly, we have the energy for it. And, and, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:32

know, that's one of the things that I really appreciate about

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:35

you. And what you've always done in your career is, is look for,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:40

you know, Where's where's juice here? What's different, what's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:44

unique, because as soon as we find that, that's what spurs

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:48

learning because it's different. And that's the other side of the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:52

brain of it. You know, the other side of the brain too, is that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:26:54

loves to learn. It loves to know what's new. So, wonder and awe,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:01

like using our imagination, which is a part of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:04

transformational learning. So that like, I wonder, I wonder

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:09

what that would be like. And, yeah, like, I was playing with

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:13

this today. It's like, ah, if I was my future self right now,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:19

what would I be doing? And what how would I be thinking and and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:24

the cool piece on that too. Benjamin Hardy love Benjamin

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:28

Hardy for anyone out there who you know, wants to kind of be up

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:33

to the science of all of this, too. He's a he's a psychologist

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:36

and in behavior and management and all those good things. In

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:40

his book 10x is easier than 2x. He talks about, you know, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:48

define your past by the present. I thought that was very good. We

Cheryl Brewster: 00:27:55

define our past by the present, because the present, when you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:00

look back at your past, well, which way do you want to look at

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:03

it? When you look at it from what did I learn? How did I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:06

grow? How different Am I than I was before? It's like, it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:09

huge. There's good stuff there, right? So the wonder in the eye

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:15

is, well, well, look how much I've learned, look how much I've

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:19

grown, if I could do that way back then. And with what I know

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:23

now, like, anything is possible. What do I really want, which

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:28

gets us back into, into desire, wanting to do something for the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:31

sheer joy of it. And when that is involved, now, I think we're

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:38

talking, okay, things are happening now. And that's where

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:41

I think some of our great thought leaders, some of our

Cheryl Brewster: 00:28:43

great inventors, it's like, let's, let's have fun again.

Susan Ney: 00:28:52

You've mentioned mindfulness, and it really is

Susan Ney: 00:28:55

about stopping, being in the moment. And I just love that

Susan Ney: 00:29:00

because, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of

Susan Ney: 00:29:04

different places I've worked and just, you know, some of them

Susan Ney: 00:29:08

happier experiences and others, but I've met phenomenal people.

Susan Ney: 00:29:14

And I've had, you know, there there have been times where I

Susan Ney: 00:29:17

got stretched, but because of that stretch then doing that at

Susan Ney: 00:29:22

the next organization wasn't such a challenge. So yes,

Susan Ney: 00:29:27

looking back and and, you know, changing your perception of some

Susan Ney: 00:29:33

of the things that we would otherwise beat ourselves up

Susan Ney: 00:29:38

over, you know, I could have done better, you know, just, oh

Susan Ney: 00:29:42

my goodness, you know, if I'd only had the experience that I

Susan Ney: 00:29:44

have now, when I tried to deal with that situation. We're

Susan Ney: 00:29:48

really good at beating ourselves up. But that was all part of the

Susan Ney: 00:29:51

learning experience and, and why we are who we are today. So

Susan Ney: 00:29:57

those you write those are really important. Got it. It does take

Susan Ney: 00:30:04

it does take some time to just think right to, instead of just

Susan Ney: 00:30:08

be caught up in the whirlwind of, of your past of rec,

Susan Ney: 00:30:16

spending some time and recognizing the absolute

Susan Ney: 00:30:18

positive suppose, and looking at them as positives.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:23

Exactly asking yourself, What? What can I learn

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:26

from this? What's the value in this? And, you know, I think

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:31

that's the, there's a real humility piece here, I think

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:35

that's important to talk about. Because when when we recognize

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:40

there is something in our life that isn't working, as well as

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:42

we'd like it to. The humility piece is, is thank you for

Cheryl Brewster: 00:30:51

letting me know.

Susan Ney: 00:30:54

Yeah, yeah. You also talked about the use of

Susan Ney: 00:31:02

metaphors and the importance of metaphors, can you share a

Susan Ney: 00:31:06

little bit more of that with our listeners? And what I'm saying,

Susan Ney: 00:31:09

you talked about, it's been Cheryl was talking to me before

Susan Ney: 00:31:12

about some of the research that she was doing?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:15

Yeah, well, you know, and again, like, who knew

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:19

I, sometimes these concepts or terms, you know, because we're,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:25

they've been around for years, we forget the meaning of them.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:30

And we forget how powerful they are. So, metaphors help the mind

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:35

because the mind sees in pictures, not in words. So

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:39

that's where, you know, Plato, back in the day came up with the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:42

cave metaphor, where, you know, you, there's shadows on the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:47

cave, and you're looking at the shadows on the cave, and then

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:50

you see the light and you're, you're you're you're scared to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:53

go out because of all this activity, when, you know, it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:31:56

it was just a shadow on on the cave wall. So that's an example

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:00

of a metaphor. And, you know, the the research is that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:04

psychologists and neurologists, both of them, tell us that we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:08

use metaphors to make sense of our lives. So kind of like

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:10

reflection, it's the meaning it's the bridge. Now, the cool

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:14

thing about metaphors is that they're absorbed directly by the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:17

subconscious mind. And that's why, for example, in the work

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:22

with with that I do with with hypnosis is going straight into

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:26

the unconscious mind. What I love about metaphor and teaching

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:29

is this. Ask yourself, if there was a fairy tale or a myth that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:35

I'm living, which one would it be? What would I pick? And now

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:40

take it straight into your unconscious. And then from

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:44

there, you can explore the different characters in the myth

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:47

or this story. I remember way back when when I did this years

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:50

ago, I first thing that popped up was, you know, the, the, the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:56

ugly duckling because that's how I felt at the time I felt gawky,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:32:59

I felt awkward. And I think it's important to talk about this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:03

because in learning, there will always be the distressing

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:07

dilemma. So so if we can reframe the distress that we feel with

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:14

change because the brain gets alerted, because it's it likes

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:19

patterns. And now you're in a situation that you've not been

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:23

in before. So the brain gets fired up, because it's looking

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:27

for the pattern. So that's why these mindful awareness

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:30

techniques are so powerful, because they take pre existing

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:33

information. You add, which is a pattern, you add some new

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:37

information. And now you have a bigger viewpoint, greater Vista,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:44

which means you have greater choice. And that's the power of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:46

metaphor, because it helps you see things differently. And

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:52

which ties into open mindset or learner's mindset and closed

Cheryl Brewster: 00:33:56

mindset. And I find this really fascinating. And I love, I love

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:03

to know, that if there's something in my life that I find

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:07

limiting or restrictive, or something that hurts that I have

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:12

the power to work with it, I do have the power to change it.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:18

Because that power is inside of me. But I may not be aware of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:23

it, or I may have forgotten it because you know, our power can

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:26

be unconscious too. And we're not consciously aware of it or

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:29

using it. So now if we look at the pain of, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:37

existential pain, or whatever you want to call it, it's like

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:40

wait a minute. What if it's not so bad? After all, what if it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:44

just growth wanting to happen? What if I've outgrown myself and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:50

now it's time for something more? So, you know, there's one

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:55

part of the brain that wants to comfort and then the other part

Cheryl Brewster: 00:34:57

of the brain is going yeah, let's go And so then you get

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:03

this dilemma right this push pull. So bottom line and I love

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:07

the work of of G's for name escapes me right now give it to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:14

you for the show notes. But DUAC Carol Dweck wrote a book on

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:19

mindset. And the difference between the two. And that in a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:25

closed mindset, it's like, and this is where the unconscious

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:29

comes in. We don't even realize how close we are. So when a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:35

difficult situation comes along, and this is where there's power

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:39

in adversity, that if we can use adversity to grow from, it'll

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:45

help us own our power in a way that really cuts to the chase.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:51

So the bigger picture and a learner's mindset goes, Okay, I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:54

don't like what's happened, but you know, what, I'm gonna look

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:57

for the good in it. And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:35:58

grow. And the research has shown, especially with kids in

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:03

school, that when we have an open mindset, we get better and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:12

better at transforming closed mindset, where, even though it

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:17

may be hard, we can we can actually enjoy the process, we

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:21

can have fun with it. So that's why I really appreciate what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:29

you're up to here with your podcast, your podcast is a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:32

demonstration of learners mindset, right? I

Susan Ney: 00:36:35

just love the fun part of it.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:40

And if we can make learning fun, man, then

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:43

then we can make change fun. And that's that's transformation.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:36:47

Yeah,

Susan Ney: 00:36:47

yeah. No, that's wonderful. Hey, I also noted the

Susan Ney: 00:36:51

word optimism. And I think he kind of spoken of of that. But

Susan Ney: 00:36:56

anything else you wanted to share on optimism as part of the

Susan Ney: 00:36:59

tool in the toolkit, when you're dealing with negative mindset?

Susan Ney: 00:37:04

Or is was that specifically about catching yourself and

Susan Ney: 00:37:08

looking at? What else might be going on?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:12

Yeah, yeah, there's there's an important

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:14

component here on optimism. And I, again, in the research that I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:19

did, I found a study that they did, I think it was in the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:22

Netherlands, where they did an optimist intervention. And what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:27

they did was for two weeks, they had people really work with

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:33

optimism, and, and they had imagery of what their future

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:38

self and two weeks would look like. So the research showed,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:43

and I mean, everyone felt better. And they they, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:46

did things that they maybe wouldn't have done in the two

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:49

weeks. But what was interesting, and the research was that the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:53

people who focused every day on the outcome of that future self

Cheryl Brewster: 00:37:57

that they were creating, actually did far more than just

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:02

the people who who use positive imagery on a day to day

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:06

activities. Interesting. So I thought that was interesting. So

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:11

Seligman, who was the father of, or the founder of positive

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:16

psychology, had this to say, and I think it's worth repeating.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:20

You have to embed optimism in your brain through the power of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:24

non negative thinking. So optimism is a choice. And it can

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:29

be taught, as you know, the research shows. And the reason

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:34

why it's stressed is because it does change the brain. And it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:41

what keeps us healthy, you know, in all the research that they're

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:43

doing with dementia, and in you know, the, the effect of the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:51

body, our health. You know, it's hugely important. And back in

Cheryl Brewster: 00:38:58

the day, I'll never forget, but I'm, I'm aging myself here, but

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:02

Norman Vincent Peale, saying, he was talking about positive

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:06

thinking is saying, Look, don't think that this is pollyannish.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:09

It takes grit, grit, and courage and muscles to live this way.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:14

This, this is a courageous path. And an important one, because if

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:20

we don't live it, then the very meaning of our lives gets lost.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:25

And at the end of the day, you know, it's like that quote that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:31

goes, yeah, by the time I'm done, I'm on a skid with the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:39:35

dust. Wow, what a ride.

Susan Ney: 00:39:41

And I think it's really important to be talking

Susan Ney: 00:39:42

about this because there's just so much happening in our world

Susan Ney: 00:39:45

that it Yeah, it can take people out and to be cognizant of

Susan Ney: 00:39:54

what's going on and having these tools to to make the Come

Susan Ney: 00:40:00

different, to make our thinking process different is so

Susan Ney: 00:40:04

important. So very important. I think particularly right now.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:09

I agree, you know, I think, you know, reminds

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:13

me that, you know, when we've had something hard happen, kind

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:17

of knocked the wind out of our sails, right. And so to catch

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:21

ourselves and say, okay, and to recognize the signs, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:24

what I, I, I need to look at this, I need to work with this.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:28

And because the joy does return. And it's, it's a process of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:37

discovery, and it is a process of decision. And I like to think

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:42

of, I like to think of all of these tools is, is being

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:48

muscles. And one of the studies I found to Susan was, it was

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:53

talking about reflection, and was saying how, you know, the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:40:58

the mind is like a muscle. And the reflection is what

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:02

replenishes that reflection is what gives it a rest and kind of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:07

rejuvenates it. And our brain is uses up 20% of our energy,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:16

that's a lot for muscle loss. And so, so that's why you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:23

if you've been focused for a long period of time, get up and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:27

take a breather, or go get a breath of fresh air or my

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:30

favorite, and I love this, and I have to tell you, when one

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:38

participant in a recent practicum that was doing and,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:43

you know, she just isn't Cheryl, I just don't get it, I just, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:47

know, I just don't get that stuff. And she says, How can you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:50

have so many happy people in here? And then I said, Well, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:54

know, oh, and she said, the homework is to dance. Are you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:41:58

kidding me? So, so I said, Well, here's the research will so you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:42:03

know what? She tried it and she just it that she came back to be

Cheryl Brewster: 00:42:07

lame. She said, that changed my life? Wow.

Susan Ney: 00:42:11

Yeah. Wow. Hey, a lot of our listeners are people who

Susan Ney: 00:42:16

have responsibility for other people, they oversee other

Susan Ney: 00:42:20

people. So any thoughts on, you know, other than modeling this

Susan Ney: 00:42:27

yourself, you know, as a leader? Any thoughts on what somebody

Susan Ney: 00:42:33

could do when they see that someone on their team? Perhaps

Susan Ney: 00:42:37

is struggling with negative negativity bias? Or, you know,

Susan Ney: 00:42:41

some of what we've talked about today?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:42:44

Yeah, I think that, especially with teams, a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:42:50

couple of things, number one, you know, the, the Compassionate

Cheryl Brewster: 00:42:56

communication, which is, hey, you know, you're, you're

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:00

everything, okay? No, just checking in everything, okay,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:03

you know, to keep it factual, and to also invite conversation

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:08

so that, you know, at the end of the day, it's always about

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:10

connection. So that would be my first response, I was going

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:16

everything, okay, and, you know, just checking in. And then my

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:19

second response would be, to introduce reflection into the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:25

workplace. In a study that they did out of India, Harvard

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:31

Business did a study. And it was a call center, and they were

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:35

having a hard time keeping staff. And so they they did a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:40

study, and they introduced the reflection piece, and one study

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:44

group, reflected after training, they gave them time to reflect

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:49

on the training. The second study group, not only did they

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:53

reflect it was written reflection and sharing. And then

Cheryl Brewster: 00:43:57

the third study group, there was no change. So in both groups

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:02

that reflected the one that did the written reflection, and the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:06

sharing increased productivity by 25%. The second, the second

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:12

group was just over, it was almost 23%. So between the two

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:17

50% improvement in performance and in production. So I think

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:25

this is a really valuable tool that is not utilized at all in

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:32

and, on another study that I researched, the executive said

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:38

that what made the difference between being mediocre, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:42

being, you know, stellar, was that reflection piece. So in the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:48

workplace, I think there's a real opportunity here to create

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:53

something really exciting. That only not only improves

Cheryl Brewster: 00:44:57

performance and efficiency in the bottom line but improves the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:01

quality of people's experience. And when you have that, like, I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:05

mean, there's one boss that I had, his staff would have done

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:09

anything for him. Because he, he, he not only modeled it, but

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:14

he invited it from his stuff. And, you know, to this day, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:19

know, I just, I'm very touched by this person who, to me really

Cheryl Brewster: 00:45:26

represented. True, true leadership. Wow.

Susan Ney: 00:45:32

And turning to these tools and situations,

Susan Ney: 00:45:38

friendships or conversations with family members, any

Susan Ney: 00:45:44

thoughts? I think I probably know the answer. But are they as

Susan Ney: 00:45:50

applicable in sort of non work situations where you see

Susan Ney: 00:45:57

somebody struggling?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:00

Absolutely. You know, we we really don't know

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:06

what's happening for someone. And, you know, I, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:11

especially, I think, you know, as I get older, and I, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:14

I had some health stuff up come myself last year, and I remember

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:19

going in the day before surgery going, you know, what, I, this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:25

could be the last time I do this, this could be the last

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:29

time I am in this home, this could be my last car ride. And

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:38

this is where I think slowing things down is really important.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:44

And there's a false perception out there. And I know that I've

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:48

experienced this in my life, Oh, I gotta get this done. I gotta

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:50

do this, go do that. It's like, no, no, no, you actually don't.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:56

What's most important that goes back to that 8020 rule? What's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:46:59

most important? Am I living my life that way? And again,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:04

there's courage involved. And the currency I think, is trust

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:13

and faith. And really slowing down to saying Am, Am I taking

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:21

care of what's most important? Using that rigorous scientific

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:26

inquiry? Tell the truth? No, I'm not okay. It feels a lot better

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:30

when I do. Then I'm in integrity, then you know what,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:35

the day that comes when I'm not on this planet anymore. All know

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:39

that I could have left this earth. Doing everything that I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:44

could have to contribute to myself and to others. And I said

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:50

to a client today, she wanted you know, she's going through a

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:53

lot of transition doesn't know what to do. And I said to her,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:47:57

and she said, the one thing she realized and she wanted was, she

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:01

wanted to do good in the world. And I said, in order for you to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:06

be to do good in the world, you have to do good to yourself.

Susan Ney: 00:48:11

Yeah, I sure believe that. Yeah.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:13

So yeah, this is whether it's personal or

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:17

professional, it's the bottom line is, wherever you go, there

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:21

you are. Yeah,

Susan Ney: 00:48:22

and a huge piece of leadership, whether it be small

Susan Ney: 00:48:26

l er, or big L leadership. I want to before we begin, bring

Susan Ney: 00:48:31

the podcast to a close, talk a little bit more about the term

Susan Ney: 00:48:36

that you use, transformational learning, and why this is such

Susan Ney: 00:48:41

an important piece of all of what we've talked about. You've

Susan Ney: 00:48:46

talked a little bit about it, but just any any other nuggets.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:51

Yep. The I guess the one nugget that really

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:53

stands out for me is that transformational learning, we'll

Cheryl Brewster: 00:48:56

always start out with a distressing dilemma.

Susan Ney: 00:49:00

And we get lots of those lives because we get so

Susan Ney: 00:49:03

much

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:06

this is this is this is a signal of growth,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:09

right? I like that part. So the you know, and there's many

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:13

different theories and models out there. The the one that I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:17

was studying was was Mazur house, transformational and was

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:22

basically 10 phases. And I love the first two phases that yes,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:27

there's going to be a distressing dilemma. And, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:29

know, it's like, that's okay. It's like, Oh, can we remember

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:35

that? You know, what part of part of being distressed is?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:39

It's a biofeedback signal saying, hey, you know what, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:44

know, get back, get back to your core, get back to your core.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:48

It's okay. The second phase is again, the reflection piece. And

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:51

then from there, there's there's this progression. So

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:54

transformational learning is being able to look at the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:49:57

pattern in your life record. Notice that you have been

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:01

spiraling up with it. And also recognizing how much further

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:06

along than you were like five years ago, 10 years ago, and

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:10

that you've accomplished and grown perhaps much more than

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:15

you've given yourself credit for. So take those 20 seconds of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:21

letting the good in. And that gives you more space. So that in

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:29

the next thing it is you have to do, you're bringing the the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:36

appreciation of life into it. And I think if we all did that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:41

more, imagine the amount of conflict that would simply

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:44

dissolve, literally immediately. And that's the other part of

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:48

transformational learning that I like, is that it offers

Cheryl Brewster: 00:50:52

immediate emotional relief. And as soon as we have that, then

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:01

the courage to do the things perhaps that we've been avoiding

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:04

is there, or the insight or the clarity? Makes

Susan Ney: 00:51:08

a lot of the smoke out? Yeah. diffuses. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Ney: 00:51:13

If it sounds like you're starting from a different base

Susan Ney: 00:51:15

to, you know, just the next time something comes along, then

Susan Ney: 00:51:19

you're, as you say, building the muscle better able to handle it.

Susan Ney: 00:51:24

And all of that is being observed by all the people in

Susan Ney: 00:51:28

your life.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:31

Yes, and you know, I got a Valentine from

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:35

someone today. And, you know, I have to tell you this story,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:39

just quickly, I know, we're probably at a time here. But,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:42

you know, she shared with me that she had been considering

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:47

taking her life. And she had come to one of my workshops, it

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:52

was the first workshop and intuition I'd ever done. And I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:55

was as nervous as heck I tell you. And she told me years

Cheryl Brewster: 00:51:59

later, you know, because there was something you said in that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:03

workshop. And I realized I didn't have to make that, that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:06

decision. Wow. So she sent me a Valentine. Just in, you know,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:15

connection and appreciation. And and, you know, here was my

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:20

reflective learning from that experience was, even though I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:24

felt that, you know, as my first presentation, I was nervous, I

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:28

could have done things differently. Just the fact that

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:31

I showed up, made a big change in someone's life. And I and I,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:39

this recent experience of taking these courses, you know what, it

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:43

really brought it, it slowed me down, to remind me Cheryl, where

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:49

are you being too hard on yourself? Where are you trying

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:52

to do too much? Where are you not keeping things simple? And

Cheryl Brewster: 00:52:57

where are you not bringing the the quality of life that you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:00

really, really want to live? So I think we all need these

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:05

reminders. And just because someone looks happy to happy

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:09

doesn't mean they're not going through stuff and doesn't mean

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:12

you know, we are constantly growing. So let us grow with

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:18

hope, with optimism. And most of all, let us grow with grace.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:25

Because at the end of the day, we're all doing our best. Life

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:28

is precious. Life was short, Let's appreciate ourselves.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:34

Because then we appreciate each other. And now we can make magic

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:40

happen because the on the wonder of life. That's what we're all

Cheryl Brewster: 00:53:48

here for. So to bring that into our workday.

Susan Ney: 00:53:54

Pretty cool. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:54:00

It's like okay.

Susan Ney: 00:54:05

And then so it just absolutely so important that we

Susan Ney: 00:54:08

talk about this, and we share the learning and we share the

Susan Ney: 00:54:12

tools and we talk about what we're seeing in other people and

Susan Ney: 00:54:18

using gentle language, watching for those opportunities. And

Susan Ney: 00:54:23

that this we do something to stop the, the potential that

Susan Ney: 00:54:31

negativity bias has on who we are, and I've seen it take

Susan Ney: 00:54:38

people out. And I've also watched you and you've had a

Susan Ney: 00:54:44

number of challenges that you have presented themselves and I

Susan Ney: 00:54:49

have watched you use these tools, so it was really cool to

Susan Ney: 00:54:52

watch you then see this. Learn the science behind all the way

Susan Ney: 00:54:57

you you know, I know from watching you The tools work and

Susan Ney: 00:55:01

I know from watching you work with your clients how effective

Susan Ney: 00:55:05

these tools are. So, so appreciate you saying yes to my

Susan Ney: 00:55:11

request to come and talk to all of us. And me too, because I'm,

Susan Ney: 00:55:15

I'm a lifelong learner as well, and always learning from you.

Susan Ney: 00:55:22

And thank you to our listeners for also being interested in

Susan Ney: 00:55:27

being transformational learners and doing something with these

Susan Ney: 00:55:32

negative Nellies that that often get in our way and create havoc

Susan Ney: 00:55:36

in our lives. We know we can do something about these. Cheryl,

Susan Ney: 00:55:41

you have referenced a number of great resources, through your

Susan Ney: 00:55:48

sharing with us, I will make sure that I get that information

Susan Ney: 00:55:51

from Dewey and some of the other ones that you've talked about,

Susan Ney: 00:55:56

to put on the show notes for the podcast. And yes, yes, yes, I

Susan Ney: 00:56:01

will put your contact information, if anyone wants to

Susan Ney: 00:56:04

get in touch with you and learn more about who you are and the

Susan Ney: 00:56:07

incredible programs that that you offer through the intuitive

Susan Ney: 00:56:11

life. Any last thoughts before we bring the podcast to a close?

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:18

Yes, I appreciate the lifelong

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:22

learning. And for anyone listening to this podcast. You

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:27

know, I think we're, we're a tribe. And one of the books

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:34

actually I borrowed from you on youth theory is said that, you

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:38

know, it only takes five committed people to change the

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:41

world. Just five, and each one of us have an opportunity. We

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:46

all have ideas. It's like what if we all created these little

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:49

pods of five and got together and just decided this is what's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:56:56

important. This is what makes me you know, come alive, this is

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:00

what I want to do. And as lifelong learners as we just,

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:05

you know, support each other and and imagine what we can all do.

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:12

And so I would just encourage anyone out there listening to

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:16

this, you know, there's, there's a synchronicity of this

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:19

particular episode at this particular time. It's, it's

Cheryl Brewster: 00:57:24

giving you a sign, listen.

Susan Ney: 00:57:27

I'd love love love. Swinging voice one, I just think

Susan Ney: 00:57:34

it's close to Valentine's Day. And yeah, it really is. It's,

Susan Ney: 00:57:38

it's so important. And there you go the community, again, small

Susan Ney: 00:57:42

groups and the power of working within small groups. So yeah,

Susan Ney: 00:57:47

great, thank you that. And it is so much fun, because I've been

Susan Ney: 00:57:52

in some of your small groups and I, and I don't want to go too

Susan Ney: 00:57:57

far into the story. But somebody had said, Be the person that you

Susan Ney: 00:58:02

imagine yourself to be five years from now. And then have a

Susan Ney: 00:58:06

conversation with and you put us into a Zoom Room, as I remember

Susan Ney: 00:58:12

to the conversation and you and I did and we had such fun. And I

Susan Ney: 00:58:16

remember when you talked about being you know, having been

Susan Ney: 00:58:20

written that book on resilience wasn't that fun, and you were so

Susan Ney: 00:58:25

concerned you would never it lo look at you today. And truly

Susan Ney: 00:58:29

being that person five years, whatever your timeframe is. And

Susan Ney: 00:58:33

cheese, it was fun. And it felt so empowering. And we need to be

Susan Ney: 00:58:38

having fun with this stuff. Because as you've shared with us

Susan Ney: 00:58:42

so eloquently today, it changes the brain. And the research

Susan Ney: 00:58:48

proves that it has its huge benefits. So Cheryl, thank you

Susan Ney: 00:58:56

and to our listeners have some fun with this. Get those

Susan Ney: 00:59:00

journals out, take those breaths make sure you take that time for

Susan Ney: 00:59:04

reflection. And let us know how it goes as you deal with your

Susan Ney: 00:59:09

own negativity biases and and nipping those in the bud before

Susan Ney: 00:59:14

they they do further damage. It is time for us to bring this

Susan Ney: 00:59:20

podcast to a close. Cheryl and I believe in each one of you that

Susan Ney: 00:59:29

by using these tools, you truly will be able to soar higher

Susan Ney: 00:59:36

because we both believe that you can. Right. I see Cheryl nodding

Susan Ney: 00:59:43

her head because we're recording this and I can see her. It's

Susan Ney: 00:59:46

like just believe in yourself soar high because we both

Susan Ney: 00:59:50

believe you can. Cheryl thank you for making the time to be

Susan Ney: 00:59:54

with with us here today. You're awesome as always. It is Cheryl

Susan Ney: 01:00:00

and Susan signing out have a great rest of your day everyone

Susan Ney: 01:00:03

and thanks for listening and supporting this podcast series

Susan Ney: 01:00:07

Take care everyone

Cheryl Brewster: 01:00:10

thank you bye